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The American Dream ~political discussion~
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forumfireflare
Posted 10/15/2008 5:19 AM (#5718)
Subject: The American Dream ~political discussion~



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Posts: 2166
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I will try REALLY hard not to give my opinion right away as I really want to hear
people's opinions on this. Anybody can reply even if ur not American. Keep
it clean and please use straight talk only.
""
Obama keeps talking about "preserving the American Dream" by giving anybody
the opportunity to succeed in America. He points to himself as a shining example
of this as he grew up as a poor black man on the outskirts of Chicago and is
now on the doorstep of becoming the president of the United States.
""
My question is... what do you feel is the American Dream and why?

Discuss.
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iloveonlyme
Posted 10/15/2008 7:44 AM (#5729 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: Re: The American Dream ~political discussion~



Elite Veteran

Posts: 931
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Location: Arizona
this whole election is stupid
i stoped careing since bush got elected twice
ill start careing next election
cause currently im 14 years on and no matter what i do i cant do anything about it at the moment
most of those things wont affect me directly so i dont event pay attention
i mean the only issue that will even come close to affecting me is the econemy which i dont care much about i mean i dont have a job my dad doesnt have a job and its not like my family has any money to lose
oh well
ill be 18 by next election




srry *points to the post below this*

Edited by iloveonlyme 10/15/2008 8:07 AM
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forumfireflare
Posted 10/15/2008 8:05 AM (#5734 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: RE: The American Dream ~political discussion~



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lol I wasnt asking about the election or even the people running...
I just want to know what people think is the American Dream today..
It USED to be in terms of european immigrants coming to America
with the promise of work and to escape persecution... im looking
for responses on what you think it has evolved into.
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AFaQ
Posted 10/15/2008 4:00 PM (#5755 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: Re: The American Dream ~political discussion~


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Posts: 111
100
forumfireflare - 10/15/2008 5:07 AM

AFaQ - 10/14/2008 2:07 PM
down 400 points average every day

lie.. (or exaggeration.. going for effect there?)

This is obviously being instated for different reasons. They want to control the people of the US. Actually I never spun it in my favor, ONE OF THE SCENARIOS LISTED IS A FIXED PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION!!!!!!

yep and look who's trying to fix it.. (look at the news for those who dont get it... the whole acorn thing and voter fraud in ohio..)

I think Id rather go back to having someone who has more intelligence than an ape. And palin in the senate...omg... the corruption will be worse than Cheney, she got a guy fired for breaking up with her sister, thats just messed up. Shes insane. Somone who makes such biased and impulsive decisions CANNOT lead the senate. the end.

once again, the media is blowing everything out of proportion.. you dont think theres skeletons in Bidens closet as well? shit, he doesnt even know what a vice president does... talk about stupidity... that guy lied more times during the vp debate and the media never stuck him. It's bullshit..

I can't believe you arent democrat. You certainly talk like one.. regurgitating media exaggerations and constantly asserting the economy is in the crapper... But ill educate you, the economy is not that bad off... The only thing we have a problem with now is the financial system that is mucking things up and who is to blame for this crisis?
The Democrats.
During the Clinton administration, the government made it easier and easier for people with poor credit to get loans. Most of this right now is a backlash from that. I hate it how every republican president gets stuck with the blame for a recession when it almost ALWAYS was the jackass dem president before him. Several of Obama's advisors are from Fannie Mae the ones that embezzled all that money you are talking about and people insist that he'll be able to fix this crisis.
Anyway, I'm going to start a new topic in off-topic if you want to continue with me. This isnt the right place to do this.

Actually, i was lieing, today it is down 700+ points ^^ Dont believe me? Check CSPAN anytime during the day. I do agree that it is part Clinton's fault , but he cannot be stuck with even 10% of the blame, In America WE OWE money, the value of the dollar is dropping every second, and more as were in Iraq. I can tell you that the drain on the american economy of a pointless war for oil and gas prices being risen by hungry money fiends is more than half of the blame, and Bush and Mccain ARE CUTTING TAXES FOR THEM. What are they doing for america? INFLATING THE OIL PRICES MORE!!!
That is not a fair trade, tax cuts should come with a gas price cut to the american people. In fact I dont really support Obama or Mccain, I support the Libertarian party. I just want to vote for someone who has a chance to win and pick the lesser out of two evils. I think we in america should have learned by now that REGANomics does not work and the hungry fiends of corporate america
will not let it trickle down. Also, do you know who Neal Bush is? Well he was a funny character involved in loaning out HUGE loans to companies and families who DEFAULTED on all of them Leading to the hugest government bailouts in world history. He lives in china now though with all his money, so you dont have to worry about him anymore ^^. Your beloved bush family didnt tell you that did they? What about AIG that just got bailed out by buddy bush, who recently had and 89000 dollar hunting trip to england, as well as a company wide spa day MM refreshing all those rich people needed that. I dont really want to expand anymore right now, Im tired of ranting lol, but, Im eager to hear your response
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AFaQ
Posted 10/15/2008 4:10 PM (#5756 - in reply to #5734)
Subject: RE: The American Dream ~political discussion~


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Posts: 111
100
forumfireflare - 10/15/2008 8:05 AM

lol I wasnt asking about the election or even the people running...
I just want to know what people think is the American Dream today..
It USED to be in terms of european immigrants coming to America
with the promise of work and to escape persecution... im looking
for responses on what you think it has evolved into.

I thought the American dream was to have true democracy and capitalism and be free from government restraint on speech, religion, polictics, and taxation without representation(what a joke nowdays? LOL)
But it has evolved to a live feed of money to the oil tycoons, money hunger and the richest wanted to rule the world completely.
It has become a New World Order as your beloved bush says.
The Federal reserve which was supposed to hold the gold that our dollar trades in for is now a PRIVATELY OWNED COMPANY with SHAREHOLDERS!!!!
We are no longer the land of the free and the home of the brave, but the land of the poor where the rich like to prey(as in the animal kindom)!
Please expand.

Edited by AFaQ 10/15/2008 4:11 PM
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HinataMoondance
Posted 10/15/2008 5:16 PM (#5762 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: Re: The American Dream ~political discussion~



Veteran

Posts: 234
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Sadly there is no American dream anymore. The land of the free has become the land of the controlled. After finding out about the patriot act and the C&R document, both of witch take rights away, I rather stay in the Netherlands. The weather sux but freedom is priceless.
Your federal reserve should be federal, only states should have the right to print money.
And as for the oil, the price at the gasstation here is twice that of what you pay. The oilproduction is at its peak and it will only be less every year. Go drive a toyota prius.
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GLWrath
Posted 10/15/2008 7:57 PM (#5763 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: RE: The American Dream ~political discussion~


Member

Posts: 19
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Location: Texas
Wasn't the American Dream to kill your boss and take his/her job?....or was that just mine o.o
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forumfireflare
Posted 10/16/2008 5:15 AM (#5781 - in reply to #5755)
Subject: Re: The American Dream ~political discussion~



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AFaQ - 10/15/2008 4:00 PM
Actually, i was lieing, today it is down 700+ points ^^ Dont believe me? Check CSPAN anytime during the day. I do agree that it is part Clinton's fault , but he cannot be stuck with even 10% of the blame, In America WE OWE money, the value of the dollar is dropping every second, and more as were in Iraq.

Ya it was 700 points down yesterday... it was also up 900+ points on monday... you can't use the market as a daily indicator of how the economy is. It's so erratic that the slightest bit of good news sends it skyrocketing while a bit of bad news drops it like a bag of rocks.
AFaQ
I can tell you that the drain on the american economy of a pointless war for oil and gas prices being risen by hungry money fiends is more than half of the blame, and Bush and Mccain ARE CUTTING TAXES FOR THEM. What are they doing for america? INFLATING THE OIL PRICES MORE!!!

The tax rate for businesses in the U.S is 35%, which is way higher than several european countries. I think one of the countries McCain mentioned last night was 11%. So you can't tell me that raising taxes on businesses is good for the US because the jobs are just going to go elsewhere. McCains points are valid. If we DO cut taxes for businesses, then more jobs will stay in the U.S.
AFaQ
That is not a fair trade, tax cuts should come with a gas price cut to the american people.

read above in hinatas post.. Europeans are paying twice as much for gas as we are and taxcutting gas price is not a long term answer. As McCain says, we need to be vigilant in discovering our own sources of oil to free us from foreign control. This will lower gas prices by lowering demand and thus providing a long term solution to the energy crisis.
AFaQ
In fact I dont really support Obama or Mccain, I support the Libertarian party. I just want to vote for someone who has a chance to win and pick the lesser out of two evils. I think we in america should have learned by now that REGANomics does not work and the hungry fiends of corporate america will not let it trickle down.

well to each his own... Reganomics may not work as well as it should but Obama's re-distribution of wealth is going to be far less effective... he talks about raising the (already high) taxes on businesses making 250k or more per year. Thats not a big business btw. A business making that much can only afford to employ 5-10 workers. These businesses (that you seem to hate) are employing americans currently and we need to encourage that. By raising costs by increasing taxes here, it will make them seek out more favorable working climates.
AFaQ
Your beloved bush family didnt tell you that did they? What about AIG that just got bailed out by buddy bush, who recently had and 89000 dollar hunting trip to england, as well as a company wide spa day MM refreshing

I'm not related to Bush in anyway so I don't know where you're going with this. Its not secret that alot of the financial world is corrupt. The CEO's are running away with the money that the govt is "bailing them out" on. The bailout bill IMO was acted on too hastily... theres not enough safeguards to prevent such action. For an example, (since you think Obama is the lesser of evils) Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are two of the companies that failed recently and Obama has chosen several of Fannie Mae's executives as financial advisors to his campaign. Talk about special interests.
Anyway, I made this topic because Obama is constantly asserting that he is trying to preserve the American Dream.
The American Dream to me is in part the freedom to find the opportunity to work in the U.S. and to be rewarded for your hardwork. However, with Obama's redistribution of wealth plan, he's taking the money of the hardworking small businesses and giving it to someone who hasnt worked as hard. If you are truly Libertarian, you should realize atleast that McCain is giving people the FREEDOM to do what you want with your money.
A further example is Healthcare, Obama wants to take your money and give you one federal health insurance plan. McCain wants to give you a $5000 tax cut on health insurance which you can than take to the health insurance plan of YOUR choice. Freedom.
Anyway, I'm so more libertarian than you. I'd vote for Ron Paul too but I want my vote to matter so I'm voting for the one that gives me the most freedom to do with money what I want. John McCain.
~I'm Snook and I approve this message~
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AFaQ
Posted 10/16/2008 8:42 AM (#5791 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: Re: The American Dream ~political discussion~


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Posts: 111
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Actually, I own a business that makes under 250,000 dollars a year, and i employ over 10 people . IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT MUCH IN PROFIT YOU MUST BE SPENDING AND MAKING BACK OVER A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR AND HAVE HUGE PROFIT!! Many businesses, even big ones arent even going to make that much because PEOPLE ARENT SPENDING MONEY, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO CASH FLOW! $250,000 profit is a big business. Obama IS NOT GOING TO RAISE TAXES FOR SMALL BUSINESSES OR THE MIDDLE CLASS, stop spamming your right wing nutty lies(not an insult, but in responce to your dem lies comment)(right wingers are seriously nuts!!!). You may be a strong libertarian, but you are much to far on the right wing for your veiws to make any positive difference in america. We need to pay into a governemnt healthplan, BECAUSE alot of us obviously cant take care of ourself and put away enough to even afford insurance we need to completely wipe out the insurance market and replace it with a completely government funded insurance plan A TAX BREAK ISNT WORTH CRAP I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT PAYING MORE TO HELP MY COUNTRY, if you lok at the world, nearly all of the european countries who supply their people with good healthcare have higher taxes than the US. On another note, OFFSHORE DRILLING IS NOT THAT IMPORTANT, IT WILL NOT SAVE AMERICA AND IT WILL TAKE PART IN DESTROYING THE EARTH we need to use the earth's MAGNETIC FEILD to make engines that run on basically no energy at all. Basically we can make a plugin for cars that costs about $50 thatll make all petrolium engines obsolete, but Mccain of whom you speak so highly loves helping his friends at exxon out and making those towelies more and more money. The right wing of gorvernment is now corrupt and going all in for the elitists, we finally have the technology to completely make the foreign oil obsolete, but we want to fund the elite so they can get even more powerful and fund some more pointless wars, Yes I said it Rockafeller and Exxon Mobil ARE FUNDING THE WAR IN IRAQ.

Edited by AFaQ 10/16/2008 8:54 AM
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AFaQ
Posted 10/16/2008 8:43 AM (#5792 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: Re: The American Dream ~political discussion~


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Posts: 111
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and your mccain is buddy buddy with both of the families who own those corperations
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AFaQ
Posted 10/16/2008 8:47 AM (#5794 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: Re: The American Dream ~political discussion~


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Posts: 111
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also on a footnote I agree that more freedom is nessecary but if we stop giving CEOs all of our tax money, I garuntee that the government can keep track of the money that we fund them with and will make sure that the insurance money only goes to that(and you have absolutly no proof that they wont)(other than the 2 trillion dollars that went missing in the bush administartion, that they never told you about)

Edited by AFaQ 10/16/2008 8:53 AM
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forumfireflare
Posted 10/16/2008 9:03 AM (#5795 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: RE: The American Dream ~political discussion~



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lol who's nuts.. you seriously want higher taxes? well obama'll bring em to you..
you started this whole rant btw saying I'm buddy buddy with Bush and McCain..
yes I voted for Bush twice and will vote McCain once.. just because I believe
socialism isnt the answer for America.. Obama wants us to conform with Europe
and sit down with our enemies unconditionally.
I work for a company that makes more than 250k per year and we employ under
100 people and yet we are still a small company. There are many small companies
that make more than 250k that will be screwed by Obama's plans.
Anyway, I dont think either of us is wrong. Lots of people are going to be screwed
under either plan and thats because the political system in this country is broken.
The entire country is partisan. The people in the cities vote Dem cause they want
the social programs and the nationalized health insurance. The people in suburbs/
country want Repub because they want the freedom to do what they want with
their money and they dont want to spend all those taxes on programs that dont
do anything.
If you want to continue this conversation, please do so peacefully. Pretty sure its
just us on here that care about this stuff. Everybody else is either too young to vote
or not U.S. Lol its a freaking forum for a game for crying out loud^^.
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forumfireflare
Posted 10/16/2008 9:11 AM (#5796 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: RE: The American Dream ~political discussion~



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feel free to reference that car plug in btw.. cuz it sounds like a crock how you say it.
and you're right, offshore drilling by itself is not enough to free us of foreign oil.
But its a step in the right direction and if anything its psychological. But saying to
other countries that we are going to do anything and everything to get a domestic
source for oil, it lowers demand. Don't give me that crap that its going to destroy
our earth either. Drilling technology has made huge advancements in the past couple
decades and I believe China is already off shore drilling.. If its there, other countries
will take it before we get the chance to.

Edited by forumfireflare 10/16/2008 9:12 AM
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forumfireflare
Posted 10/16/2008 1:24 PM (#5810 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: RE: The American Dream ~political discussion~



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by the way, the market was up 400+ points today AFAQ... shows atleast some people are still making money.
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AFaQ
Posted 10/16/2008 6:41 PM (#5827 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: Re: The American Dream ~political discussion~


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Posts: 111
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yet it was down 500 tonight
your right, both candadates are gonna screw us, they only argue on a few things that shouldnt really matter in the real world and offshore drilling should help lower oil prices which is importnt for the time being, but we could have devoloped the plug ins for the cars 50 ears ago when einstein was alive if as much money that was put in for oil was put into science, and exxon-mobil is just now releasing info that they are devoloping it, it probably wont be available to the public for a long while though (10 years+ but with recent advances in physics, we now know it is possible without a doubt.)

Edited by AFaQ 10/16/2008 6:42 PM
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SharShar
Posted 10/17/2008 10:32 PM (#5932 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: Re: The American Dream ~political discussion~



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Location: Athravan WH Head, Zeus and Unofficial Helper
Obama and McCain are both shams.
I'm gonna write in Ron Paul
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valansa
Posted 4/22/2018 10:04 PM (#233271 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: RE: The American Dream ~political discussion~


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valansa
Posted 5/4/2019 12:45 PM (#352622 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: RE: The American Dream ~political discussion~


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valansa
Posted 7/25/2019 10:07 AM (#382870 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: Re: The American Dream ~political discussion~


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valansa
Posted 8/28/2019 12:32 PM (#403507 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: Re: The American Dream ~political discussion~


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valansa
Posted 9/4/2019 1:15 PM (#406353 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: RE: The American Dream ~political discussion~


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valansa
Posted 11/25/2021 7:49 AM (#430952 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: Re: The American Dream ~political discussion~


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valansa
Posted 1/12/2022 7:38 AM (#461738 - in reply to #5718)
Subject: Re: The American Dream ~political discussion~


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